Flurocarbon line breaking regardless of brands....

Tims - junior

hi guys,
I fished for many years 20 plus years ago fishing tournaments constantly and back then we used Mono and Braid occasionally breaking a crankbait off but not too many times. Now, after retiring and starting back fishing I began using Shimano high end rods and reels all new and flurocarbon lines and immediately started breaking off lures with 10lb line mainly crank baits. I have tried every fluro line you can think of regardless of cost and just have problems with all of them breaking sending the lure flying off and its not the knot or the guides.

Researching this online and this seems to be happening with many people not just me. Guys, I do fish a lot but this just seems to be not acceptable to me. Is it just me or Fluro really just kind of a joke and way to sell more line to fisherman? I don't recall this being an issue years ago... Any thoughts?

March 1, 2019 08:47:56 AM
skeeter3335 - sophomore

I have been using sunline sniper and shooter with no issues what so ever, love the stuff. I use this line for just about everything now.

March 8, 2019 07:27:04 AM
Tims - junior

What lb test and which for cranking.
Thanks

March 11, 2019 09:13:34 PM
Ramdriver15 - doctor

I've been throwing p-line tactical for two years, or the basspro KVD 100% floro with zero problems. I have thrown from 8-12lb on cranks and jerk baits. never an issue. I have thrown all the way up to 20lb with jigs and swimbaits with no issues whatsoever as well. I do know that if you backlash and kink the line it is no longer strong enough and i will cause a line failure at the kink or burn area.

March 14, 2019 04:10:50 PM
Don Slimmer - admin

Tims. . . I use fluoro for most of my cranking applications and as is skeeter3335, I'm also a Sunline user. What pound fluorocarbon line that is best for cranking is difficult to answer, as the line size (poundage) can change with the habitat that your fishing and personal preference.

Here's a snapshot of what I typically use;
I use 10 or 12 lb., for my mid to deep diving (10ft to 25ft) crankbaits. I use 16 to 18 lb., for traps and chatterbaits (I included traps & chatters, because I use CB rod for those techniques). For crankbaits in the 3-10ft range I mostly use 10 or 12 lb. For squarebills, I jump up to 18-20 lb test because I'm targeting a lot of wood/brush.

The knot that I mostly tie with fluorocarbon line is the San Diego Jam knot https://www.animatedknots.com/sandiegojam/index.php . . .
A couple of points to note on fluorocarbon line; ensure you moisten the line thoroughly when cinching the knot down, and also if you get a backlash and kink the line, the kink will be a weak spot prone to breaking.

Hope this helps....

March 23, 2019 11:51:19 AM

Sunline is definitely the way to go for strength and if you are ever having problems with backlashing or just not casting right i will spray a little bit of the KVD line conditioner and let it sit for 15 mins or so and what a difference.

April 1, 2019 11:10:53 AM
The Dean - professor

Breaking off is unacceptable in most situations. When you are fishing around mussles or heavy cover some breakoffs are bound to occur. However, this should not that common. The knot is the first place to look. Flouro carbon does not work well well with the polomar knot. The two knots to tie are the improved clinch knot and the Sandiago jam knot. This will solve most problems. It the problem persists, you have to look at your rods an reels to make sure there are not sharp edges here. Gamma line is the toughest line I have ever used. I highly recommend giving it a try.

April 25, 2019 10:07:57 AM
Matt cooper - freshman

I was doing the same thing then I started using a different knot (improved clinch knot) with a good ol wet lick.

May 3, 2019 09:12:58 PM
David Graham - freshman

Also, don't cinch the knot down extremely tight. It's not like mono where you can grab the lure and pull the line to get the knot as tight as possible. At that point you've already burned the line and it's going to break. Wet your line, get the knot snug and go fishing. I've seen guys grabbing their lure, wrapping the line around their hand and pulling on that knot like they're trying to start a chainsaw and wondering why they keep breaking off. Might also consider the uni knot. Or double uni for 10 lb or lighter line.

June 9, 2019 09:31:10 AM
kodiak_gg - freshman

I switched from the Palomar knot to the improved clinch knot and have seen an improvement. I would give that a try, and also you could run some cotton swabs between your guides to see if there are any sharp edges.

June 17, 2019 12:52:13 AM
txchaser - graduate

Doubled San Diego jam knot solved my break offs.

August 25, 2019 07:00:18 PM
Jason Admin - admin

Not to mention the waste of time and throwing all the fluoro away (since most average Joes don't even know where to recycle their fishing line, and many programs only accept mono). I love to catch bass, but I'm not doing it for a living, and, while it may be the absolute best thing for catching bass, if braid is 80% as effective in getting bites, it certainly makes up for it in every other way in which it is far superior to fluoro. Guys like VanDam might be fishing for $100k bites, I get it, that's why I also understand him burning 70 gallons of gas to get to/from a spot. Again, I'm not that guy. I want the best balance of fish catching to enjoyment/convenience. After 1 season with braid, you'd have to present some really compelling evidence to get me to switch from braid as my primary line. Now, I do usually fish a fluoro leader, but 2-3 yards of fluoro a day, I can afford that.

January 29, 2020 11:11:12 AM
Jwells5.56 - senior

I used to have the same problem with Fluoro. I believe the issue was mostly the knot I used to tie. Now I use Sunline Shooter and tie a type of double knot taught by Gerald Swindle. I haven’t had a break off since I made the switch.

March 17, 2020 11:15:54 AM
PatinParkton - graduate

I don't like the handling, breakage vulnerability, and high cost of fluorocarbon. Pros recommend respooling for each trip. Here's my quick cost workup to do such:

15 outfits for moving baits; 50 yds per outfit; 3 trips per week; 40 weeks per year = 90,000 yards needed

Sunline FC Sniper 15 lb price for 1000yd spool is $149 at TW; 90,000 yards costs $13,410 per year
Seagur InvisX 14 lb price for 1200 yd spool is $122 at TW; 90,000 yards costs $9,150 per year
Sufix Adv 14 lb VIP price for 1200 yd spool is $70; 90,000 yards costs $5,250 per year

I am retired, can't deduct this cost as a business expense, and am not sponsored by a line company. Also consider the environmental impact of disposing of 90,000 yards of line. Given the extremely high cost, time spent changing line, and the huge negative environmental impact of line disposal, (not to mention the hassle of using the stuff), why would any amateur fisherman want to use fluorocarbon?

April 13, 2020 10:19:58 AM
Jason Admin - admin

PatinParkton, certainly puts things in perspective. I bought my uses Skeeter for $10k, less than a year of fishing Sunline. I've continued to have no issues with braid to fluoro on spinning reels and when I use co-polymers, like P-Line fluoroclear, on baitcasters, they handle well and I certainly don't have to change them every trip. I can't tell you the last time I broke a fish off on 14lb fluoroclear. I don't know about the comparison on stretch/visibility/sink vs. float with regular fluorocarbon, but I like it as a weekend angler.

April 13, 2020 10:39:09 AM
The Dean - professor

Let me weigh in on this one PatinParkton. You can get a lot more mileage out of fluorocarbon than having to re-spool after every trip. I guide and teach throughout the year and I re-spool only a few times a year. The Gamma line I use is pricey but lasts a long time. I often use 20-pound fluoro when flipping and find that a 20-pound line lasts a very long time without having to re-spool. Like Jason, I use a braid a lot as my main line with a fluorocarbon leader. I find this to be the least expensive option. Braid will almost always last a season for me. I simply exchange the fluoro leader when needed. The most common use of a full spool of fluoro for me is cranking and flipping. Almost all other applications I use braid with a fluoro leader. I do like to use copolymer/mono for topwater because it floats.

The sinking of fluoro can be a real asset and the low stretch can help with hookups. My advice is to use fluoro only when it helps your presentation and opt for braid with a leader in almost all other situations. It will help you catch a bunch more fish and save a pile of money in the process.

April 14, 2020 11:43:37 AM
PatinParkton - graduate

Sure, Pete. I don't guide or fish tournaments any more, but I do fish 100 days or more a year from my BassCat . I use braid/fluoro for most of my outfits, casting and spinning. But there are many "Pro" statements recommending changing out main line fluoro everyday, or even after a few hours use (Aaron Martens). (see current Bass Times for other examples). I can see 20 lb fluoro being more forgiving, but the slightest nick in 10 lb or lighter and you are in for a big disappointment when you least need it. I'm glad you mentioned fluoro's sinking characteristics as the attraction. I get that. But most people laud the low visibility as a primary reason for using it. Consider this: a fish detects an object through sight and through their lateral line. Fluoro may be less visible (debatable in sunny conditions due to the documented fiber optic flashing down the line), but it is certainly more detectable by the fish's lateral line given the much larger diameter/water displacement compared to braid. So I think fluoro's "invisibility" is a bit over promoted. Does it offer some advantages, absolutely, but it is sustainable in lighter lb tests without frequent changing, I don't think so. Braids offer less stretch and better tight line sensitivity than fluorocarbon. I use sinking braids with fluoro leader, and various copolymer lines (Maxima, Silver Thread, Magnathin....I am over 70 and old school!) instead of fluorocarbon main line. I do confess, however, to using 20-25 lb fluoro for flipping for its abrasion resistance and less snags around wood, but that is my only main line fluoro application. Bottom line, beware of the hype and use what works for you!

April 14, 2020 05:32:35 PM
basscfo - graduate

The most simple to tie knot that has near 100% base line strength with fluorocarbon is shown in the Jacob Proznick wacky worm video on BU. You double your line, go through the eye of the hook and create a 10 inch doubled line section. Place the hook in the middle of this double line section and tie a 4 wrap clinch knot( not improved) with the doubled line, Wet the line before cinching it down. You will have a single line tag and a double or loop tag when you are done. Clip the tags and you are good to go. I have used this knot for 10 or 12 years with Fluors from 6 to 25 lb with no problems. It cured my fluoro issue that I was having using the palomar knot. Not sure what the name of the knot is but it is basically a 4 wrap clinch knot using doubled line. Someone showed this knot to me. Other than the Ja Proz video, I have never seen a demonstration , video, or picture of how to tie it but I am sure more are using it.

April 22, 2020 09:58:14 PM
The Dean - professor

All great feedback on Flouro. PatkinParkin, I heard that Aarons brain surgery went well yesterday. I'm so happy to hear that. If you didn't know, Aaron has had two procedures on his brain in the last two weeks. We all hope to have him up and back to normal very soon. Send prayers to him and his family.

One thing you have to take into account when studying Aaron and his fishing is this. He pushes the limits of line diameter in his fishing. Whatever technique we are talking about, Aaron will use a thinner line than most all the other pros. This puts him in a place to keep his line spooled more often. He feels this gets more bites but forces him to replace his line more often and also puts him in danger of breakoffs more often. It's a very tricky balance you have to decide in your own fishing and each situation requires an angler to weigh in these details. Do I use a line that is thick and strong so I will be able to land more fish or do I use a super-light line to get more bites but risk losing a portion of them? In most situations, I chose to go heavy on line, especially in tournaments. There are a lot of pros in the heavy line camp. Hackney, Ish, Hank Cherry are some that come to mind. However, there are just as many pros that side with Aaron and his light line thinking. I think its fun to challenge the thinking on each strategy and I'm glad you guys are diving deep into this topic.

basscfo, It's a great knot that Jacob uses. I've seen other pros use it too. I have settled on the improved clinch knot. Ike helped my on this. I also was breaking with fluoro on hooksets and so frustrated I was ready to give up. Ike had me fire the polomar knot when using fluoro and go back to the improved clinch knot. I have never been happier. I can tie this knot in my sleep and it never fails on me. Jacob's knot is a great one and the improved clinched knot is too. The takeaway on this is to fire the polomar knot for fluoro when it comes to techniques that require a powerful hook set.

I hope we get to get back to fishing soon. I miss it soooo much.

April 23, 2020 08:56:58 AM
PatinParkton - graduate

Good to hear your comments, Pete. I did not know of Aaron's health issues and wish him a speedy recovery. He is a tackle extremist, and a highly successful one. Picks things apart to the nth degree. I tend to follow his thinking but don't like to and wish I didn't have to! Would love to just throw some goat rope, but the gin clear MD reservoirs are so pressured. I also fish the tidal flats and love just throwing the heavy stuff, line and tackle there. Curiously, recently (before they shut us down) I was throwing 17 lb fluorescent (my eyes are bad!) Gamma on the reservoirs and getting the same number of bites as on 6 lb test. I don't know what to think! It's what makes this sport so interesting. I think, when things resume, that I'll be throwing a lot more 17 lb and less 6. In the meantime I am overhauling the boat trailer for my electric waters only boat. Found 3 electric lakes open in PA and not many people on them . Hope I can trailer to them without getting turned around! Best Wishes.

April 23, 2020 04:07:16 PM
Shane - graduate

I’m an average local tournament angler and I use Gamma fluorocarbon line and tie 100% of the time a polymor knot with no issues. Maybe I’m just lucky.. Gamma is some very tough line although very pricey but I feel it’s the best line I’ve used to date !!

May 25, 2020 12:05:57 AM
Jondoe67 - graduate

Thanks basscfo for jacob p knot video

Before this i been using gerald swindel
double shindle what ever he calls it.

Also i refer people to David Fritts
He claims floro is junk for cranking
I know a lot young bucks on tour today are floro guys but i believe old folks know things.

So i went to braid to mono on crankin
Call me weird but thats my new deal.

May 30, 2020 05:48:39 PM
Jondoe67 - graduate

Wow Patinparkton
That really brings things to light to me
i know people say use braid as backing
or floro leader.
First year for me on braid to floro leader. Maybe my braid too thin
But casting braid gets distance with horrible accuracy.
I checked your math.. Spot on.
you were fair in only 50yds a reel
But even if not respool every trip
The cost of floro is high.
I use them all but i use alot of mono too
.
Example on spinning gear I keep a extra spool with me for my reel one has mono one has floro if buddy or tourney partner out fishes me i plop on floro spool. So far ive not seen any diff in floro vs mono as in line shy fish
But ive never fished heavy line either

May 30, 2020 06:16:45 PM
Jondoe67 - graduate

In fairness dean is right one day ill catch a giant on thin line and be disapointed but to me that means the fish earned a right to win that round.
I know tourney guys dis agree but i fish them too... I dont even believe in nets
Ive fished with guys want you to net every 2lb fish im like really!!!

May 30, 2020 06:33:19 PM
Jondoe67 - graduate

Wow Patinparkton
That really brings things to light to me
i know people say use braid as backing
or floro leader.
First year for me on braid to floro leader. Maybe my braid too thin
But casting braid gets distance with horrible accuracy.
I checked your math.. Spot on.
you were fair in only 50yds a reel
But even if not respool every trip
The cost of floro is high.
I use them all but i use alot of mono too
.
Example on spinning gear I keep a extra spool with me for my reel one has mono one has floro if buddy or tourney partner out fishes me i plop on floro spool. So far ive not seen any diff in floro vs mono as in line shy fish
But ive never fished heavy line either

May 30, 2020 06:34:09 PM

Bass University Annual Membership Sale